At least among my social group, lazily shitting on Twilight would definitely be viewed as misogyny (and rightly so, I think).
I think poptimism at its worst is very annoying, but I actually do think there is a stronger version of poptimism worth keeping. I remember my high school days (2004-2008) when lazily shitting on things popular with girls our age was just What You Did. Our criticism of Twilight back then wasn't clever or thoughtful - it was just bashing something to show that we're cool and tough or whatever.
Blindly saying popular = good is also dumb, but it at least avoids the pitfalls I remember from my youth.
My favorite film critics these days though are on YouTube - Dan Olson, Lindsay Ellis, and Patrick (H) Willems are all striking a good balance IMO. If they're poptimist, it's a much more nuanced form of poptimism that's focused on respecting people's attachment to various media properties while also being willing to talk about them in a serious way.
Freddie, you've written a number of good pieces since coming to Substack, but I think this one is one of your best yet this year. I don't think I've seen anyone write such a cogent analysis of this "poptimism" phenomenon, or at least make these points well, and in one place. Really well done.
Heh, either you are in rare form, Freddie, or I really like the praise, however faint, of numetal (it got big when I was at juuuuuust the right level of adolescent fury, and I can't help but view it fondly). I remember in high school everybody hating on Nickelback...but I had their CD in my car, and so did all of my friends.
I didn't realize until you juxtaposed them, but...Twilight is a better love story than Loki. It's kind of shocking to me how low-quality the MCU shows and Star Trek and Star Wars have become, and how critics continue to praise them even so.
I do need to push back on using Twilight here as a companion to nu-metal. The nu-metal trashing is coming now in TYOOL 2021, but the "why is Twilight at Comic Con" stuff was over a decade ago, so this is before "the nerds won". The hate for it then was linked in a completely different historical context, where this was more like a last gasp attempt of Comic Book Store Guy types to gatekeep nerd culture than the current "if you don't like the same lowbrow stuff that I like you're doing a problematic."
I was reading last night about film censorship around 1914 when the issue was morality. It took us only about a century to go from censoring films to the issues you describe. (in 1914 there was worry about the low-down movie houses that made the films available). I hope sometime you write this kind of assessment about books. The outsiderness of small presses (COSMEP) then zines vs. NYT best seller list.
Where do you go out to drink? From my perspective Nu metal is going through the same cycle as disco, new wave, hair metal, grunge, boy bands, teen pop and most other popular genres. The new generation loves it and those who shunned it 20 years ago enjoy hearing it again. I went out to a bar for the first time in a while and there were 21 yr olds jamming along to Korn and Papa Roach while sipping their triple hopped.
What I like about Freddie's writing is that it is fun to read even when it's about a subject I know almost nothing about. (OK, I know about Star Wars.)
I actually think it's a really interesting time for artistic/creative culture now that there isn't a stable mainstream to either emulate or define oneself against. Most aren't up to the challenge, but all it takes are a few who are . . . .
Funny you mention Wesley Morris. A few years ago, he wrote what I consider one of the best pieces ever written about the Social Justice era when it comes to art. He acknowledges what we've all noticed: that in the past, it was religious conservatives doing all the moralizing and finger wagging, and now it's elite liberals.
It's far and away my least favorite thing about the Woke era. I fucking hate it.
Interestingly, I've noticed nu-metal having the beginnings of a nostalgia-driven moment (largely from people who were like five when "Rollin'" came out) online over the last year or so, so this is something that could well leave Bill Simmons and co. looking out of touch and desperate to explain that they also think it's cool that Fred Durst was dressed like a 70s-via-90s guy in those photos that went viral the other day. Chasing youth opinion is always a sucker's bet.
What gives up the editors' game on the Woodstock 99 doc are the "survivors" they choose to talk to, well-dressed college graduates who can talk about their white privilege and ruefully laugh about that time they went to a Korn concert and rioted. Those guys are the minority. I grew up in small, very white towns where nu-metal and horrorcore rap were pretty much all that's left of the charismatic Protestantism that used to make life meaningful for white lumpenprole dudes. I know those dudes: they didn't go to college, they didn't leave town, and they still listen to Limp Bizkit. They can be pretty unpleasant to hang around, but if they were, like, Peruvian miners instead of gas station clerks in Oregon, we'd at least take their complaints against late capitalism seriously.
I saw RATM as a 14 or 15 year old in the early 90s at Roseland. Crazy, violent crowd - amazing performance. I was too young to have seen the great hardcore acts in their prime - I guess RATM maybe approximated that as much as anything for my cohort?
At the best shows from that era, you'd leave dripping sweat and bruised but exultant after a transcendent experience.
Our culture has become fractured, ubiquitous, and distracted, and our 'subcultures' are mostly fandom - sapped of energy and almost always bloodless, pathetic, soft, and better ignored. There are of course great artists, but when I go to shows now I am mostly embarrassed for the restrained crowds, fixated on taking their social media videos and pics. I am especially ashamed of the performative narcissism of festival crowds.
A lot of the related '80s stuff that preceded my cohort by a few years holds up well artistically - Black Flag, Replacements, Minute Men, Fugazi, etc. I don't think there's anything like it now.
As of 2019, before everything got shut down, it seemed like the only place where people were reliably capable of enjoying themselves was at hip hop concerts.
'Also Moby praising “progressive, enlightened hip hop” while sipping from his tea mug made me die inside. I watched it, said “all hope is lost,” and felt my soul dissolve.'
In his era, Moby was universally hated and this hatred was a sign of a healthy culture.
Now Moby is normative. We are all Mobies and we cannot see what is bad about him and our culture is very sick.
At least among my social group, lazily shitting on Twilight would definitely be viewed as misogyny (and rightly so, I think).
I think poptimism at its worst is very annoying, but I actually do think there is a stronger version of poptimism worth keeping. I remember my high school days (2004-2008) when lazily shitting on things popular with girls our age was just What You Did. Our criticism of Twilight back then wasn't clever or thoughtful - it was just bashing something to show that we're cool and tough or whatever.
Blindly saying popular = good is also dumb, but it at least avoids the pitfalls I remember from my youth.
My favorite film critics these days though are on YouTube - Dan Olson, Lindsay Ellis, and Patrick (H) Willems are all striking a good balance IMO. If they're poptimist, it's a much more nuanced form of poptimism that's focused on respecting people's attachment to various media properties while also being willing to talk about them in a serious way.
Freddie, you've written a number of good pieces since coming to Substack, but I think this one is one of your best yet this year. I don't think I've seen anyone write such a cogent analysis of this "poptimism" phenomenon, or at least make these points well, and in one place. Really well done.
Heh, either you are in rare form, Freddie, or I really like the praise, however faint, of numetal (it got big when I was at juuuuuust the right level of adolescent fury, and I can't help but view it fondly). I remember in high school everybody hating on Nickelback...but I had their CD in my car, and so did all of my friends.
I didn't realize until you juxtaposed them, but...Twilight is a better love story than Loki. It's kind of shocking to me how low-quality the MCU shows and Star Trek and Star Wars have become, and how critics continue to praise them even so.
“There’s a John Lennon song I’d like to reference, but I would prefer not be mega-canceled again“
I loled
I do need to push back on using Twilight here as a companion to nu-metal. The nu-metal trashing is coming now in TYOOL 2021, but the "why is Twilight at Comic Con" stuff was over a decade ago, so this is before "the nerds won". The hate for it then was linked in a completely different historical context, where this was more like a last gasp attempt of Comic Book Store Guy types to gatekeep nerd culture than the current "if you don't like the same lowbrow stuff that I like you're doing a problematic."
I was reading last night about film censorship around 1914 when the issue was morality. It took us only about a century to go from censoring films to the issues you describe. (in 1914 there was worry about the low-down movie houses that made the films available). I hope sometime you write this kind of assessment about books. The outsiderness of small presses (COSMEP) then zines vs. NYT best seller list.
Where do you go out to drink? From my perspective Nu metal is going through the same cycle as disco, new wave, hair metal, grunge, boy bands, teen pop and most other popular genres. The new generation loves it and those who shunned it 20 years ago enjoy hearing it again. I went out to a bar for the first time in a while and there were 21 yr olds jamming along to Korn and Papa Roach while sipping their triple hopped.
What I like about Freddie's writing is that it is fun to read even when it's about a subject I know almost nothing about. (OK, I know about Star Wars.)
Good timing, as it was just announced that Pearl Jam is playing Obama's castle on Martha's Vineyard for his VIP birthday bash: https://www.axios.com/obama-plans-birthday-bash-amid-covid-concerns-26278329-43be-473d-bf16-80b025e03912.html.
And I'm reminded of this funny thread "live tweeting" Woodstock '99 that spares no one: https://twitter.com/RamonVillalobos/status/1078279851885264897
I actually think it's a really interesting time for artistic/creative culture now that there isn't a stable mainstream to either emulate or define oneself against. Most aren't up to the challenge, but all it takes are a few who are . . . .
There have been no good bands since Zep and Floyd.
Funny you mention Wesley Morris. A few years ago, he wrote what I consider one of the best pieces ever written about the Social Justice era when it comes to art. He acknowledges what we've all noticed: that in the past, it was religious conservatives doing all the moralizing and finger wagging, and now it's elite liberals.
It's far and away my least favorite thing about the Woke era. I fucking hate it.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/10/03/magazine/morality-social-justice-art-entertainment.html
Interestingly, I've noticed nu-metal having the beginnings of a nostalgia-driven moment (largely from people who were like five when "Rollin'" came out) online over the last year or so, so this is something that could well leave Bill Simmons and co. looking out of touch and desperate to explain that they also think it's cool that Fred Durst was dressed like a 70s-via-90s guy in those photos that went viral the other day. Chasing youth opinion is always a sucker's bet.
What gives up the editors' game on the Woodstock 99 doc are the "survivors" they choose to talk to, well-dressed college graduates who can talk about their white privilege and ruefully laugh about that time they went to a Korn concert and rioted. Those guys are the minority. I grew up in small, very white towns where nu-metal and horrorcore rap were pretty much all that's left of the charismatic Protestantism that used to make life meaningful for white lumpenprole dudes. I know those dudes: they didn't go to college, they didn't leave town, and they still listen to Limp Bizkit. They can be pretty unpleasant to hang around, but if they were, like, Peruvian miners instead of gas station clerks in Oregon, we'd at least take their complaints against late capitalism seriously.
I saw RATM as a 14 or 15 year old in the early 90s at Roseland. Crazy, violent crowd - amazing performance. I was too young to have seen the great hardcore acts in their prime - I guess RATM maybe approximated that as much as anything for my cohort?
At the best shows from that era, you'd leave dripping sweat and bruised but exultant after a transcendent experience.
Our culture has become fractured, ubiquitous, and distracted, and our 'subcultures' are mostly fandom - sapped of energy and almost always bloodless, pathetic, soft, and better ignored. There are of course great artists, but when I go to shows now I am mostly embarrassed for the restrained crowds, fixated on taking their social media videos and pics. I am especially ashamed of the performative narcissism of festival crowds.
A lot of the related '80s stuff that preceded my cohort by a few years holds up well artistically - Black Flag, Replacements, Minute Men, Fugazi, etc. I don't think there's anything like it now.
As of 2019, before everything got shut down, it seemed like the only place where people were reliably capable of enjoying themselves was at hip hop concerts.
It's worth noting that nu metal bands like Korn and Slipknot have been lauded by critics.
'Also Moby praising “progressive, enlightened hip hop” while sipping from his tea mug made me die inside. I watched it, said “all hope is lost,” and felt my soul dissolve.'
In his era, Moby was universally hated and this hatred was a sign of a healthy culture.
Now Moby is normative. We are all Mobies and we cannot see what is bad about him and our culture is very sick.