This powerfully argued piece reminds me of Jon Ronson’s insight in his excellent book So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed: the targets of online shaming almost always in fact have done something wrong. But not only is their punishment wildly disproportionate to the offense, but the people doing the shaming feel a censorious glee as they mete out the punishment. This isn’t good for anyone.
I haven’t been following the trial, so it should be surprising that I have an opinion and have taken a side (Depp’s). Why do I feel like this is any of my business? Because of all the media coverage? Or because righteous indignation feels so good? Either way, getting angry at Heard online isn’t making anything better.
It always amazes me that those on social media who want to deplatform/ban/fire their opponents are usually the same people who argue for a more forgiving, reform-orientated criminal justice system. Forgiveness for more serious, violent crimes but no mercy for disagreeing with them or tweeting something controversial. Do they not feel even the tiniest bit hypocritical?
Would Weigel have been disciplined if he’d made the joke while out with his co-workers for a drink? I’d say no. He’s being disciplined because he decided to publish it.
I’m not sure why people think some thing you publish to the world should have the same standards as what you joke about in passing.
May I suggest a middle ground between canceling people we disapprove of, and having sympathy for them? Perhaps we might just consider *ignoring the dickens* out of things that don't deeply concern us.
(I am willing to admit forgiveness and even active rebuilding/rehabilitation engagement as far superior to *just ignoring stuff* but whatever active rehabilitation is, this canceling ain't it.)
I won't be buying tickets to any of her future movies but that should be easy because I've never bought tickets to any of her past ones either.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who publicly smeared a romantic partner in a national newspaper during a time when those types of public revelations were purposefully intended to "bring justice" or whatever.
I honestly don't particularly care about this, though. I DO care about the guy with the dumb retweet getting eviscerated. But if people in Hollywood want to work with either of them, both of whom seem unstable and terrible as people, that's their prerogative. I hope their money comforts them.
The entire trial left me sad. The only thing I wanted for Depp and Heard was that they would never have to see each other again and maybe find their own paths forward to make better choices. Not only did they have to be together to redress in gory detail everything that happened, but they had to do so with a giant audience. As if that made things better.
I don't agree with canceling her but there are too many people weighing in on this, judging the general public who have been ignored and forgotten by the high-minded media, without ever having watched the trial. Or looked at all of the evidence. When you do that you understand exactly what she has done. It isn't about just the op-ed. There is a timeline. What she has done is not just exploit the Me Too movement - fine - I don't particularly care. What I care about is the systematic abuse by her towards Depp that is being ignored. The wrath against Heard is about THAT. This is why people who do not understand the case are disturbed by that reaction. The majority of his supporters are domestic abuse survivors who rightly see her as the abuser. I agree that she should be able to work -- but know this: the media elite are siding with her, not him. He is the one whose career is ruined and if not for public support would never get it back. Even now people call him and think of him as a wife-beater. In recording after recording Heard taunts him, mocks him, screams at him, calls him a "baby" and a "pussy" because he runs from physical fights. He grew up abused by his mother - she grew up (supposedly) abused by her father. You can imagine what kind of match they made.
Her main complaint in counseling and on tapes was that he didn't stay and fight with her, even when, as she says, it got physical. He ran from her. She continually did everything she could to force a physical confrontation.
Timeline:
Johnny Depp's mother dies. He's already trying to exit the relationship. They have a fight as he's gathering the last of his things. She calls someone - he throws the phone at her.
The next day, people who saw Heard -- at least two -- said they saw no bruise on her face. The next day, at least one person sees her, no bruise on her face.
Her lawyers tell her she has to threaten him with abuse claims to get what she wants, which is: 50,000 a month in alimony, the Eastern Columbia building, their Range Rover. He doesn't give them to her (she did not sign a prenup and when he brought up a postnuptial she got so mad she threw a bottle at him which sliced off his finger, so that wasn't signed either).
Her own parents text Depp and tell him her lawyers are making her do it.
She goes public because he didn't meet her demands and they eventually settle. He gives her 7 million. She says she will donate that to charity.
It isn't until he sues the Sun that her outlandish tales of extreme physical abuse are claimed - raping her with a bottle, throwing her across the room, choking her, beating her with the back of his hand. For a woman who documented almost everything from him passed out on the couch to her own cuts and bruises -- she took no pictures of herself after this alleged assault? Witnesses who saw her immediately after saw no bruises. No cuts. Nothing.
Johnny loses his defamation case in the UK. Now Amber Heard is emboldened to become a spokesperson or domestic violence and sexual violence. She gives speeches. She writes the op-ed.
Depp, with no other options right now because the public will never believe him, must hold a very public trial. It becomes a cultural phenom. People finally have a chance to look at the case and hear the evidence. I was on her side until I did that.
He is vindicated fully in the trial. But the media can't let it go. They can't give up the idea that all women are victims and all men are abusers.
Sorry but as a victim of an extremely abusive relationship and a childhood of physical abuse I am horrified at her lies. And even more horrified by those who are now trying to tell people not to be upset about it.
So what is the punishment for Heard? Well, public shame is not a bad place to start. But I agree that she should be able to still work. I would be forgiving if she was honest and admitted she lied. I recorded a podcast and wrote a story about the trial with many of their recordings -- that link is here:
This makes me wonder if, in your Marxist reading, you’ve spent much time with the Christian socialist tradition. I’m neither Christian nor socialist, but it seems to me that Christian ethics of forgiveness and absolute spiritual brotherhood are one helpful framework for tempering the authoritarian excesses of leftism. (Atheists, no need to point out the historical authoritarian excesses of Christianity; I get it. I just think it’s possible that these two quasi-utopian projects have something to offer each other.)
Of course, Christians would say you have to forgive Harvey Weinstein, too — though perhaps not put him in a position of authority again.
Forgive me for commenting after barely even glancing at this piece. I’ll have time later for it. But to me this is just the latest installment of an ongoing series of pieces involving you saying hugely important things that we all need to be talking about.
There is a cognitive dissonance in our culture between “the most important thing that we all need to do is to care about other people and be sensitive to what they go through” and “fuck you, you’re banished forever”
Fine. Let's forgive Amber Heard. But first she must stop her counterproductive regurgitation of accusations that have been found by a jury to be untrue. The case was, narrowly, about the WaPo essay (ghost-written by the ACLU in exchange for her promise -- unfulfilled -- of $3.5 million dollars) but more generally about a series of, frankly, insane statements Heard made about Depp's behavior. Can anyone truly believe that he raped her with a broken bottle? For those who did not follow the trial, let me state that Heard does not have a single doctor's report, ER report, or other medical evidence -- other than clearly faked and doctored photos -- to support any of her allegations of physical or sexual abuse.
What made Heard so unsympathetic (and continues to) is not just her mendacity but her refusal to admit to it even when she is caught red-handed. During the trial she kept repeating that she just wanted to be left alone. So why, now that it is over, does she keep Instagramming and tweeting in defense of her indefensible behavior? Freddie can say all he wants that she's speaking her "truth," but as he has eloquently argued many times before, it's only truth if it's true. Anyone who watched Heard's testimony has to admit that she is a pathological liar who continues to make thins worse for herself by not letting go. This is not the first intimate relationship she's had in which she has been proven to be the abuser.
If she wants to rehabilitate her image, I suggest she just be quiet for a few hours and let the truth of the jury's verdict stand.
Below is a relevant excerpt from Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural Address (any excuse to quote this majestic speech!)
"Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered ~ that of neither has been answered fully."
Thanks for the dig at Michael Hobbes, who I despise more than any other pundit out there. Not hyperbole. Here he is sneering at people not for being pro-Depp, but for not caring about the trial at all. https://mobile.twitter.com/RottenInDenmark/status/1532315220550598656?cxt=HHwWgIC-zeKk8MMqAAAA
That being said, I have no hate for Amber Heard either. Let both of these actors continue their careers and let's put this ugly mess behind us.
Am I the only one who found the re-tweeted joke funny? I literally laughed out loud. Everyone's too busy being outraged to relax and laugh a little.
This powerfully argued piece reminds me of Jon Ronson’s insight in his excellent book So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed: the targets of online shaming almost always in fact have done something wrong. But not only is their punishment wildly disproportionate to the offense, but the people doing the shaming feel a censorious glee as they mete out the punishment. This isn’t good for anyone.
I haven’t been following the trial, so it should be surprising that I have an opinion and have taken a side (Depp’s). Why do I feel like this is any of my business? Because of all the media coverage? Or because righteous indignation feels so good? Either way, getting angry at Heard online isn’t making anything better.
It always amazes me that those on social media who want to deplatform/ban/fire their opponents are usually the same people who argue for a more forgiving, reform-orientated criminal justice system. Forgiveness for more serious, violent crimes but no mercy for disagreeing with them or tweeting something controversial. Do they not feel even the tiniest bit hypocritical?
Would Weigel have been disciplined if he’d made the joke while out with his co-workers for a drink? I’d say no. He’s being disciplined because he decided to publish it.
I’m not sure why people think some thing you publish to the world should have the same standards as what you joke about in passing.
Freddie this post is very Christian of you.
May I suggest a middle ground between canceling people we disapprove of, and having sympathy for them? Perhaps we might just consider *ignoring the dickens* out of things that don't deeply concern us.
(I am willing to admit forgiveness and even active rebuilding/rehabilitation engagement as far superior to *just ignoring stuff* but whatever active rehabilitation is, this canceling ain't it.)
I won't be buying tickets to any of her future movies but that should be easy because I've never bought tickets to any of her past ones either.
I don't have a lot of sympathy for someone who publicly smeared a romantic partner in a national newspaper during a time when those types of public revelations were purposefully intended to "bring justice" or whatever.
I honestly don't particularly care about this, though. I DO care about the guy with the dumb retweet getting eviscerated. But if people in Hollywood want to work with either of them, both of whom seem unstable and terrible as people, that's their prerogative. I hope their money comforts them.
The entire trial left me sad. The only thing I wanted for Depp and Heard was that they would never have to see each other again and maybe find their own paths forward to make better choices. Not only did they have to be together to redress in gory detail everything that happened, but they had to do so with a giant audience. As if that made things better.
I don't agree with canceling her but there are too many people weighing in on this, judging the general public who have been ignored and forgotten by the high-minded media, without ever having watched the trial. Or looked at all of the evidence. When you do that you understand exactly what she has done. It isn't about just the op-ed. There is a timeline. What she has done is not just exploit the Me Too movement - fine - I don't particularly care. What I care about is the systematic abuse by her towards Depp that is being ignored. The wrath against Heard is about THAT. This is why people who do not understand the case are disturbed by that reaction. The majority of his supporters are domestic abuse survivors who rightly see her as the abuser. I agree that she should be able to work -- but know this: the media elite are siding with her, not him. He is the one whose career is ruined and if not for public support would never get it back. Even now people call him and think of him as a wife-beater. In recording after recording Heard taunts him, mocks him, screams at him, calls him a "baby" and a "pussy" because he runs from physical fights. He grew up abused by his mother - she grew up (supposedly) abused by her father. You can imagine what kind of match they made.
Her main complaint in counseling and on tapes was that he didn't stay and fight with her, even when, as she says, it got physical. He ran from her. She continually did everything she could to force a physical confrontation.
Timeline:
Johnny Depp's mother dies. He's already trying to exit the relationship. They have a fight as he's gathering the last of his things. She calls someone - he throws the phone at her.
The next day, people who saw Heard -- at least two -- said they saw no bruise on her face. The next day, at least one person sees her, no bruise on her face.
Her lawyers tell her she has to threaten him with abuse claims to get what she wants, which is: 50,000 a month in alimony, the Eastern Columbia building, their Range Rover. He doesn't give them to her (she did not sign a prenup and when he brought up a postnuptial she got so mad she threw a bottle at him which sliced off his finger, so that wasn't signed either).
Her own parents text Depp and tell him her lawyers are making her do it.
She goes public because he didn't meet her demands and they eventually settle. He gives her 7 million. She says she will donate that to charity.
It isn't until he sues the Sun that her outlandish tales of extreme physical abuse are claimed - raping her with a bottle, throwing her across the room, choking her, beating her with the back of his hand. For a woman who documented almost everything from him passed out on the couch to her own cuts and bruises -- she took no pictures of herself after this alleged assault? Witnesses who saw her immediately after saw no bruises. No cuts. Nothing.
Johnny loses his defamation case in the UK. Now Amber Heard is emboldened to become a spokesperson or domestic violence and sexual violence. She gives speeches. She writes the op-ed.
Depp, with no other options right now because the public will never believe him, must hold a very public trial. It becomes a cultural phenom. People finally have a chance to look at the case and hear the evidence. I was on her side until I did that.
He is vindicated fully in the trial. But the media can't let it go. They can't give up the idea that all women are victims and all men are abusers.
Sorry but as a victim of an extremely abusive relationship and a childhood of physical abuse I am horrified at her lies. And even more horrified by those who are now trying to tell people not to be upset about it.
So what is the punishment for Heard? Well, public shame is not a bad place to start. But I agree that she should be able to still work. I would be forgiving if she was honest and admitted she lied. I recorded a podcast and wrote a story about the trial with many of their recordings -- that link is here:
https://sashastone.substack.com/p/the-depp-verdict-shows-how-out-of?s=w#details
Johnny Depp was the one thrown away. And no one cares except his fans, most of whom are women.
This makes me wonder if, in your Marxist reading, you’ve spent much time with the Christian socialist tradition. I’m neither Christian nor socialist, but it seems to me that Christian ethics of forgiveness and absolute spiritual brotherhood are one helpful framework for tempering the authoritarian excesses of leftism. (Atheists, no need to point out the historical authoritarian excesses of Christianity; I get it. I just think it’s possible that these two quasi-utopian projects have something to offer each other.)
Of course, Christians would say you have to forgive Harvey Weinstein, too — though perhaps not put him in a position of authority again.
Forgive me for commenting after barely even glancing at this piece. I’ll have time later for it. But to me this is just the latest installment of an ongoing series of pieces involving you saying hugely important things that we all need to be talking about.
There is a cognitive dissonance in our culture between “the most important thing that we all need to do is to care about other people and be sensitive to what they go through” and “fuck you, you’re banished forever”
Fine. Let's forgive Amber Heard. But first she must stop her counterproductive regurgitation of accusations that have been found by a jury to be untrue. The case was, narrowly, about the WaPo essay (ghost-written by the ACLU in exchange for her promise -- unfulfilled -- of $3.5 million dollars) but more generally about a series of, frankly, insane statements Heard made about Depp's behavior. Can anyone truly believe that he raped her with a broken bottle? For those who did not follow the trial, let me state that Heard does not have a single doctor's report, ER report, or other medical evidence -- other than clearly faked and doctored photos -- to support any of her allegations of physical or sexual abuse.
What made Heard so unsympathetic (and continues to) is not just her mendacity but her refusal to admit to it even when she is caught red-handed. During the trial she kept repeating that she just wanted to be left alone. So why, now that it is over, does she keep Instagramming and tweeting in defense of her indefensible behavior? Freddie can say all he wants that she's speaking her "truth," but as he has eloquently argued many times before, it's only truth if it's true. Anyone who watched Heard's testimony has to admit that she is a pathological liar who continues to make thins worse for herself by not letting go. This is not the first intimate relationship she's had in which she has been proven to be the abuser.
If she wants to rehabilitate her image, I suggest she just be quiet for a few hours and let the truth of the jury's verdict stand.
Great and necessary post.
Below is a relevant excerpt from Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural Address (any excuse to quote this majestic speech!)
"Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered ~ that of neither has been answered fully."