Haven't seen Shogun, but this is a trope I despise. Oldboy is a good example, where every move the protagonist makes once released from confinement – which surely would have shattered his mind, and made the outside world so alien to him, to the point it could never be predicted – is predicted exactly by the villain. 'No it isn't' is the only rational response.
See also the bit where Negan was introduced in The Walking Dead (the TV show) where his entire plan depends on exactly where Rick and crew would run in an world that's largely wilderness. They could have shot him in their first antagonistic encounter and that's the plan fucked. But they don't and they can't because the show needs to show he's omniscient, with lazy writing.
Not trying to be a fanboy here but if I'm remembering the long denouement of that series correctly, one of the more important elements to Harry Potter was that Dumbledore was, in fact, often wrong, that he bungled and fumbled several major critical elements of the war against Voldemort, and that Voldemort himself was only defeated because the protagonists had several virtues and innate qualities that Dumbledore himself lacked.
I dunno what this means for Shogun since I've never seen it. And it's been a long time since I read Harry Potter. Plus, you'd only get this fully if you read the books. All of which is to say, as is usually the case, the books were better. Why am I even writing this comment? Happy Friday.
Can’t really be true to the book it’s adapting without a near-omniscient Toranaga, the book itself describing one of history’s great schemers.
Maybe I don’t see it because I’ve read the book a few times and am not in ignorance of the ending but I don’t get the “Toranaga is a champion of freedom and/or democracy” take, he’s just not gratuitously malign like Yabushige, but he’s clearly a warlord sacrificing friends and family for his own purposes. He’s the prime mover but I don’t see how he reads as the “good guy”.
I have been afraid to watch the show for exactly these kinds of reasons. I read the book years and years ago and really enjoyed it. But while well researched, and really, really long, the core story is a fish-out-of-water adventure yarn. It raises some interesting ideas about the nature of cultures and exchange betweem civilizations but I never read it as having some kind of deeper meaning. It certainly doesn't require nor is it improved by trying to finagle in a bunch of very modern obsessions.
I overall agree with the criticism. I still like the show. As far as why Toranaga is better than Ishido, I feel like it indirectly explains why in the show... At least when looking at it from the Japanese culture perspective of the 17th century.
Ishido is of a filthy peasent background, Toranaga is a Minowara.
The Taiko and his Queen Dowager wife, both felt closer to Toranaga and wanted him as the person to protect the heir of Japan. At least the scenes we see.
Toranaga didn't take people hostage. Ishido kept people's families hostages in Osaka... while Toranaga let the Taiko's wife leave Edo and come back to Osaka early on in the show.
Well, the hero's gotta hero, right? I don't think it's a problem that the hero is the cleverest, or that he wins (I'm gonna assume he wins). I think the problem (as Freddie notes) is in the inevitable dependence on chance, which is played as if he instantly adds every random, odd, unforeseen occurrence to his master plan, modifying as necessary. While I like Sanada as an actor (and my wife looooves him), he has played Toranaga as just that; a man who is always absolutely in control. I see little in the way of wavering confidence, hesitation or discomfort in fitting a new circumstance into the puzzle. Perhaps the book made him more human, but in the show he's invincible.
Kudos to Anna Sawai, who in addition to being beautiful, does very well in transmitting an intelligence and awareness of what's going on around her. She seems the standout in the cast to me. Jarvis plays Blackthorne as a bit of a knucklehead, which I hope is his intention . . .
I'm not a great student of history or anything, but of what I have read, perhaps this is just a story of one of those times that things go right.
History is full of stories where rulers get everything wrong, overestimate themselves, and their plans fall apart in spectacular fashion. But it also has so many stories of plans going exactly as the ruler expects, even though from an outside perspective there is no reason it had to be that way. Some people look like they were full of masterful schemes that they pulled off without a hitch, when in fact so much of that success was dependent on luck beyond their control. It is not necessarily a fault to portray that scenario, because it has happened in real life many times.
I somewhat disagree because Toranaga's schemes seem more seat-of-his-pants than recognition. He almost got caught escaping from Osaka, and I don't think he predicted the Anjin's distractions! But he clearly is a level above every other character, and that doesn't really bother me more than Paul Atreides being the kwisatz haderach and such.
IIRC Toranaga is based on Tokugawa Ieyasu, the first Shogun. Presumably someone who was able to unify feudal Japan did have an uncanny ability to predict what was going to happen.
I haven’t read a biography of Tokugawa Ieyasu but it’s certainly possible that he was Never Wrong and able to Explains It All - or at least able to a significantly greater degree than other people.
Maybe that’s why the show runners have Toranaga almost perish in that earthquake. They needed to show at least one instance where he “did not see that one coming” for the critics ;)
I may be wrong and the final episode may vindicate Freddie’s critique, but I don’t see Toranaga as a Dumbledore. He’s presented as a more honorable and stable tyrant than Ishido. But he’s still a tyrant who is willing to sacrifice his followers and even take strategic advantage of personal tragedy. He doesn’t know everything and has to frequently apply his cunning to changed or unforeseen circumstances.
But at least the people he deliberately sends into harms way to achieve his political objectives are adults.
“I think the built-in response that a show that takes place in 1600s feudal Japan can’t have that much to say about the modern condition is fair enough.”
I…..what? That’s…..fair?????
Lord of the Rings is set in the third age of Middle Earth. Dune is set in the distant future on a different planet. Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar is set in 44 BC. The Seventh Seal is set in the 1300s, Wolf Hall is set in the 1500s, and Ben-Hur is set in 33AD.
Nothing to say about the modern human condition, none of them.
If that’s fans’ best defense it’s actually a stunning indictment.
Haven't seen Shogun, but this is a trope I despise. Oldboy is a good example, where every move the protagonist makes once released from confinement – which surely would have shattered his mind, and made the outside world so alien to him, to the point it could never be predicted – is predicted exactly by the villain. 'No it isn't' is the only rational response.
See also the bit where Negan was introduced in The Walking Dead (the TV show) where his entire plan depends on exactly where Rick and crew would run in an world that's largely wilderness. They could have shot him in their first antagonistic encounter and that's the plan fucked. But they don't and they can't because the show needs to show he's omniscient, with lazy writing.
"I’m not looking forward to being told that I’m just a hater and let people enjoy things blah blah" basically me with the Fallout TV show right now...
I think Freddie would "pick a fight with the sky if he didn't like the shade of blue" to quote another series he shits on lol.
Good analysis, I just should have waiting until next week to read it.
Not trying to be a fanboy here but if I'm remembering the long denouement of that series correctly, one of the more important elements to Harry Potter was that Dumbledore was, in fact, often wrong, that he bungled and fumbled several major critical elements of the war against Voldemort, and that Voldemort himself was only defeated because the protagonists had several virtues and innate qualities that Dumbledore himself lacked.
I dunno what this means for Shogun since I've never seen it. And it's been a long time since I read Harry Potter. Plus, you'd only get this fully if you read the books. All of which is to say, as is usually the case, the books were better. Why am I even writing this comment? Happy Friday.
Great article. You sure sound bitter about the God you don't believe in... :)
Can’t really be true to the book it’s adapting without a near-omniscient Toranaga, the book itself describing one of history’s great schemers.
Maybe I don’t see it because I’ve read the book a few times and am not in ignorance of the ending but I don’t get the “Toranaga is a champion of freedom and/or democracy” take, he’s just not gratuitously malign like Yabushige, but he’s clearly a warlord sacrificing friends and family for his own purposes. He’s the prime mover but I don’t see how he reads as the “good guy”.
I have been afraid to watch the show for exactly these kinds of reasons. I read the book years and years ago and really enjoyed it. But while well researched, and really, really long, the core story is a fish-out-of-water adventure yarn. It raises some interesting ideas about the nature of cultures and exchange betweem civilizations but I never read it as having some kind of deeper meaning. It certainly doesn't require nor is it improved by trying to finagle in a bunch of very modern obsessions.
I overall agree with the criticism. I still like the show. As far as why Toranaga is better than Ishido, I feel like it indirectly explains why in the show... At least when looking at it from the Japanese culture perspective of the 17th century.
Ishido is of a filthy peasent background, Toranaga is a Minowara.
The Taiko and his Queen Dowager wife, both felt closer to Toranaga and wanted him as the person to protect the heir of Japan. At least the scenes we see.
Toranaga didn't take people hostage. Ishido kept people's families hostages in Osaka... while Toranaga let the Taiko's wife leave Edo and come back to Osaka early on in the show.
Well, the hero's gotta hero, right? I don't think it's a problem that the hero is the cleverest, or that he wins (I'm gonna assume he wins). I think the problem (as Freddie notes) is in the inevitable dependence on chance, which is played as if he instantly adds every random, odd, unforeseen occurrence to his master plan, modifying as necessary. While I like Sanada as an actor (and my wife looooves him), he has played Toranaga as just that; a man who is always absolutely in control. I see little in the way of wavering confidence, hesitation or discomfort in fitting a new circumstance into the puzzle. Perhaps the book made him more human, but in the show he's invincible.
Kudos to Anna Sawai, who in addition to being beautiful, does very well in transmitting an intelligence and awareness of what's going on around her. She seems the standout in the cast to me. Jarvis plays Blackthorne as a bit of a knucklehead, which I hope is his intention . . .
Spoilers so not going to read the article yet. But what’s the consensus? Is the show worth watching?
I'm not a great student of history or anything, but of what I have read, perhaps this is just a story of one of those times that things go right.
History is full of stories where rulers get everything wrong, overestimate themselves, and their plans fall apart in spectacular fashion. But it also has so many stories of plans going exactly as the ruler expects, even though from an outside perspective there is no reason it had to be that way. Some people look like they were full of masterful schemes that they pulled off without a hitch, when in fact so much of that success was dependent on luck beyond their control. It is not necessarily a fault to portray that scenario, because it has happened in real life many times.
I somewhat disagree because Toranaga's schemes seem more seat-of-his-pants than recognition. He almost got caught escaping from Osaka, and I don't think he predicted the Anjin's distractions! But he clearly is a level above every other character, and that doesn't really bother me more than Paul Atreides being the kwisatz haderach and such.
IIRC Toranaga is based on Tokugawa Ieyasu, the first Shogun. Presumably someone who was able to unify feudal Japan did have an uncanny ability to predict what was going to happen.
I haven’t read a biography of Tokugawa Ieyasu but it’s certainly possible that he was Never Wrong and able to Explains It All - or at least able to a significantly greater degree than other people.
Maybe that’s why the show runners have Toranaga almost perish in that earthquake. They needed to show at least one instance where he “did not see that one coming” for the critics ;)
I may be wrong and the final episode may vindicate Freddie’s critique, but I don’t see Toranaga as a Dumbledore. He’s presented as a more honorable and stable tyrant than Ishido. But he’s still a tyrant who is willing to sacrifice his followers and even take strategic advantage of personal tragedy. He doesn’t know everything and has to frequently apply his cunning to changed or unforeseen circumstances.
But at least the people he deliberately sends into harms way to achieve his political objectives are adults.
Got distracted from the main point exactly here:
“I think the built-in response that a show that takes place in 1600s feudal Japan can’t have that much to say about the modern condition is fair enough.”
I…..what? That’s…..fair?????
Lord of the Rings is set in the third age of Middle Earth. Dune is set in the distant future on a different planet. Shakespeare’s Julius Caesar is set in 44 BC. The Seventh Seal is set in the 1300s, Wolf Hall is set in the 1500s, and Ben-Hur is set in 33AD.
Nothing to say about the modern human condition, none of them.
If that’s fans’ best defense it’s actually a stunning indictment.