This is a salient point. And in no way, is the acknowledgement, and hostility towards, our general American anti-black racism going to make any parents of white families in cities where their kids are definitely in the minority, going to feel better when it's their kids getting their asses kicked in schools, either.
This is a salient point. And in no way, is the acknowledgement, and hostility towards, our general American anti-black racism going to make any parents of white families in cities where their kids are definitely in the minority, going to feel better when it's their kids getting their asses kicked in schools, either.
And then, when they've had enough and move them to "better schools" where their kids aren't miserable, they're the villains in the narrative.
How? Why? Because their progressive bonafides weren't as strong as their desire not to see their kids have a miserable childhood and a lousy education?
Are their kids getting their asses kicked in school or is this a hypothetical you dreamed up to make your argument seem stronger? Because from the research I have seen, smart kids from middle class families do well in whatever teaching environment they are in, so long as basic needs of safety are met.
Just as you correctly pointed out that my experience from the Bay Area is not generally applicable, neither is Providence RI a good example of most of the US. In most of the US there is a poorer urban center surrounded by wealthier white suburbanites who moved to the suburbs for the "good schools" while the urban school district has test scores similar to suburban schools for children in the same race and class demographic.
I think you’re making a good point; a lot of parents are afraid of the possibility of their kids getting abused, but it would be nice to have data on how likely this is. We do have data on expulsion rates, though, and it seems that black males are likelier than any other group to be expelled; this is often taken to be evidence of administrators’ and teachers’ racism, but I’m skeptical.
Guess what? When white kids are in a school where being a white kid is really different, and isn't cool? Just like in any other social dynamic in school, they're either the toughest or the toughest, or get their asses kicked.
And one's social and political left of center bonafides around ideal education policy tend to disappear in a hurry, even among blue city, blue state, upper income people with the most impeccable progressive credentials, when their (white) kids get the shit kicked out of them in public schools for being different.
Strange I never got my ass kicked in school, even when I was in the extreme minority. It didn't happen when I lived in The Project in Southern California, it didn't happen when I lived in rural Wyoming or rural California either. You must have had the misfortune to live in an extremely violent area. And I am not a large or athletic person, or at least I wasn't when I was younger.
My mixed race kids go to SF public schools and are thriving. I know some white parents who are doing fine with that too. But yes, lots of whites pull their kids out, as I mentioned in another comment. I don't think it is because they got the "shit kicked out of them .. for being different." I think it is because they are racist.
Unfortunately I cannot find any studies of the likelihood of being bullied broken down by race, but perhaps you do. I would love to see some real data on this.
"You must have the misfortune of living in a violent area"
Well, yes, and regional culture plays a large part of that too. You didn't get your ass kicked for being different in CA or WY? Congratulations!
Come up to big cities in the northeast? Hey, look at that - Hartford, Providence, Bridgeport ,Newark and too many others to mention aren't Cheyenne.
Class differences rule, and race is the force multiplier, up here. If you didn't get your ass kicked for being a minority, great, but rest assured, it does happen, which is one factor (beyond shitty buildings, chronic teacher absenteeism, etc.) which causes literally anyone with the means to do so to pull their kids out of public schools.
I am skeptical by nature. Please do not take it personally. I doubt that whites are bullied more or less than other races but would be happy to change my stance if offered evidence of it.
People with power are always going to manipulate things to the advantage of them and their children, it is human nature. It doesn't mean that it is morally defensible especially when it is contrary to the interests of society as a whole.
If you say you experienced racially biased bullying then I believe you, though I don't think you explicitly said that you did. Each region is a bit different here. Generally Americans have segregated communities and schools and this greatly disadvantages Blacks and only marginally advantages whites, if at all.
I've heard a lot of this kind of thing happening. In the poorest and most violent black areas there are very few white people to begin with, but there are some new asian immigrants who very definitely do get their asses kicked. I've heard of this in both Philly and NYC. I've heard of it happening to white kids too but there are just fewer white people in those schools to begin with. I think one mistake though is people assuming all inner city schools or mostly black schools are like this when it's really just the worst ones. I think a lot of white people can be blind to the fact that most black people aren't lower class and most black neighborhoods aren't ghettos.
There are some schools that are just too dangerous for good instruction to occur in. Maybe Providence is one of those places. I shouldn't overstate my case.
I doubt that anyone can get a good education in the one public high school in East St. Louis.
This is a salient point. And in no way, is the acknowledgement, and hostility towards, our general American anti-black racism going to make any parents of white families in cities where their kids are definitely in the minority, going to feel better when it's their kids getting their asses kicked in schools, either.
And then, when they've had enough and move them to "better schools" where their kids aren't miserable, they're the villains in the narrative.
How? Why? Because their progressive bonafides weren't as strong as their desire not to see their kids have a miserable childhood and a lousy education?
Seriously. What?
Are their kids getting their asses kicked in school or is this a hypothetical you dreamed up to make your argument seem stronger? Because from the research I have seen, smart kids from middle class families do well in whatever teaching environment they are in, so long as basic needs of safety are met.
Just as you correctly pointed out that my experience from the Bay Area is not generally applicable, neither is Providence RI a good example of most of the US. In most of the US there is a poorer urban center surrounded by wealthier white suburbanites who moved to the suburbs for the "good schools" while the urban school district has test scores similar to suburban schools for children in the same race and class demographic.
I think you’re making a good point; a lot of parents are afraid of the possibility of their kids getting abused, but it would be nice to have data on how likely this is. We do have data on expulsion rates, though, and it seems that black males are likelier than any other group to be expelled; this is often taken to be evidence of administrators’ and teachers’ racism, but I’m skeptical.
Guess what? When white kids are in a school where being a white kid is really different, and isn't cool? Just like in any other social dynamic in school, they're either the toughest or the toughest, or get their asses kicked.
And one's social and political left of center bonafides around ideal education policy tend to disappear in a hurry, even among blue city, blue state, upper income people with the most impeccable progressive credentials, when their (white) kids get the shit kicked out of them in public schools for being different.
But please, go on.
Strange I never got my ass kicked in school, even when I was in the extreme minority. It didn't happen when I lived in The Project in Southern California, it didn't happen when I lived in rural Wyoming or rural California either. You must have had the misfortune to live in an extremely violent area. And I am not a large or athletic person, or at least I wasn't when I was younger.
My mixed race kids go to SF public schools and are thriving. I know some white parents who are doing fine with that too. But yes, lots of whites pull their kids out, as I mentioned in another comment. I don't think it is because they got the "shit kicked out of them .. for being different." I think it is because they are racist.
Unfortunately I cannot find any studies of the likelihood of being bullied broken down by race, but perhaps you do. I would love to see some real data on this.
"You must have the misfortune of living in a violent area"
Well, yes, and regional culture plays a large part of that too. You didn't get your ass kicked for being different in CA or WY? Congratulations!
Come up to big cities in the northeast? Hey, look at that - Hartford, Providence, Bridgeport ,Newark and too many others to mention aren't Cheyenne.
Class differences rule, and race is the force multiplier, up here. If you didn't get your ass kicked for being a minority, great, but rest assured, it does happen, which is one factor (beyond shitty buildings, chronic teacher absenteeism, etc.) which causes literally anyone with the means to do so to pull their kids out of public schools.
Do you have any evidence other than assertion to back your claims?
This looks interesting but I won't pay $20 to read it:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1359178919300825
You got me there, dude - it's all clearly a racist conspiracy to make people making comments on Substack look bad.
And to think I would have gotten away with it if not for you meddling kids.
Maybe you should send your kids (presuming you have any) to school up here. You can go ahead and prove me wrong with your own anec-data later, too.
I am skeptical by nature. Please do not take it personally. I doubt that whites are bullied more or less than other races but would be happy to change my stance if offered evidence of it.
People with power are always going to manipulate things to the advantage of them and their children, it is human nature. It doesn't mean that it is morally defensible especially when it is contrary to the interests of society as a whole.
If you say you experienced racially biased bullying then I believe you, though I don't think you explicitly said that you did. Each region is a bit different here. Generally Americans have segregated communities and schools and this greatly disadvantages Blacks and only marginally advantages whites, if at all.
I've heard a lot of this kind of thing happening. In the poorest and most violent black areas there are very few white people to begin with, but there are some new asian immigrants who very definitely do get their asses kicked. I've heard of this in both Philly and NYC. I've heard of it happening to white kids too but there are just fewer white people in those schools to begin with. I think one mistake though is people assuming all inner city schools or mostly black schools are like this when it's really just the worst ones. I think a lot of white people can be blind to the fact that most black people aren't lower class and most black neighborhoods aren't ghettos.
There are some schools that are just too dangerous for good instruction to occur in. Maybe Providence is one of those places. I shouldn't overstate my case.
I doubt that anyone can get a good education in the one public high school in East St. Louis.
This looks like an excellent public school in Providence. There are many "1"s here as well.
https://www.greatschools.org/rhode-island/providence/212-Classical-High-School/
Asses kicked, is not necessarily physical.