Serious question. Is this weird queer/nonbinary stuff is just the feminine version of autism spectrum/low agreeableness behavior? I'm not talking about your everyday boring lesbian/bi women, I'm talking about the really weird stuff.
My friends are almost all men, and I don't see any of this. I met most of my friends through board games, so you could imagine the level of autism spectrum and social awkwardness among them (yes, I include myself). I see a lot of deep interest in bizarre subjects, but not any of the weird queer stuff.
I feel like this is the proper outlet for women to express weirdness, while men have a bunch of others.
This is a really interesting thought! "Nonbinary" is such a broad term - I have trouble categorizing because among my own social groups, I know both plenty of AFAB people who I definitely think have some autistic traits informing their gender identity (and many of them would readily agree with that), and plenty of AFAB people who are taking they/them pronouns almost in order to be *more* agreeable. "She/they" not as a statement of how they want to be perceived as a gendered or not-gendered person, but as a statement that they're cool with whatever, they know the lingo, they're not so attached to their gender so as to be unapproachable.
But I think "this is the proper outlet for women to express weirdness" gets at something really true. Especially young women - as I get into my 30s I'm noticing that the people who were most obsessed with these categories 10 years ago, even when they've held onto some of the labels, have mostly abandoned the desperate need to announce it or to correct others for doing it wrong.
From what I've seen (anecdotes ahoy) the nonbinary stuff for women seems to mostly be for women who want to be seen as "not like the other girls". It's a way to stand out from the crowd and feel like there's something special and different about you that makes you unique. I think some of it is misogyny - they hear the term "woman" and think it inherently means some kind of submissive, baby-crazy individual who just wants to stay home and make sandwiches.
Queer seems a bit different. I've seen it used for women who are actually lesbian or bisexual, but I've also seen a number of straight women using it. I think this is because they want to participate in events like Pride and wear rainbows, but being an "ally" doesn't feel cool enough so they say they're "queer" and then they have a right to take part in the festivities.
On some level, I get it. There is a lot of Pride focused stuff in our society and it feels bad to not really be "allowed" to take part in the fun, celebratory side of it. No one is making tote bags and enamel pins and dresses just for straight people, so many adopt one of these easy identities as a way to feel like they're part of a community.
Yeah, I was recently reading a news article about a womenтАЩs college and how it was expanding the definition of who their clientele is. They had interviewed a student who said something like тАЬI identify as non-binary and use they/them pronouns, because womanhood doesnтАЩt define me.тАЭ
And I thought, well, does womanhood define *anyone*? Also, I would say that IтАЩm not defined by my ethnicity, in that I defy many of the stereotypes and norms around it (some deliberately, some just by happenstance) тАФ but nobody would say that that makes me not be a member of that ethnic group.
With the word тАЬqueerтАЭ тАФ yeah. It makes me kind of sad, though, because I would like a vaguer term to describe myself тАФ IтАЩm maybe bi, maybe lesbian, didnтАЩt realize I was into women until an embarrassingly advanced age, but I eventually realized that even just the thought of being with a woman was more natural to me than that of being with a man. IтАЩd like to pick a label that doesnтАЩt force me to answer the question тАЬwere any of my romantic feelings towards men real, or did that come about because I sensed that society wanted me to be attracted to men and I talked myself into thinking I was attracted to them?тАЭ But there isnтАЩt one. So I guess itтАЩs тАЬbi, but significantly more interested in dating women than menтАЭ for now.
Ha, we both commented about Lesbian Visibility Day at the same time. You're completely right.
Serious question. Is this weird queer/nonbinary stuff is just the feminine version of autism spectrum/low agreeableness behavior? I'm not talking about your everyday boring lesbian/bi women, I'm talking about the really weird stuff.
My friends are almost all men, and I don't see any of this. I met most of my friends through board games, so you could imagine the level of autism spectrum and social awkwardness among them (yes, I include myself). I see a lot of deep interest in bizarre subjects, but not any of the weird queer stuff.
I feel like this is the proper outlet for women to express weirdness, while men have a bunch of others.
This is a really interesting thought! "Nonbinary" is such a broad term - I have trouble categorizing because among my own social groups, I know both plenty of AFAB people who I definitely think have some autistic traits informing their gender identity (and many of them would readily agree with that), and plenty of AFAB people who are taking they/them pronouns almost in order to be *more* agreeable. "She/they" not as a statement of how they want to be perceived as a gendered or not-gendered person, but as a statement that they're cool with whatever, they know the lingo, they're not so attached to their gender so as to be unapproachable.
But I think "this is the proper outlet for women to express weirdness" gets at something really true. Especially young women - as I get into my 30s I'm noticing that the people who were most obsessed with these categories 10 years ago, even when they've held onto some of the labels, have mostly abandoned the desperate need to announce it or to correct others for doing it wrong.
From what I've seen (anecdotes ahoy) the nonbinary stuff for women seems to mostly be for women who want to be seen as "not like the other girls". It's a way to stand out from the crowd and feel like there's something special and different about you that makes you unique. I think some of it is misogyny - they hear the term "woman" and think it inherently means some kind of submissive, baby-crazy individual who just wants to stay home and make sandwiches.
Queer seems a bit different. I've seen it used for women who are actually lesbian or bisexual, but I've also seen a number of straight women using it. I think this is because they want to participate in events like Pride and wear rainbows, but being an "ally" doesn't feel cool enough so they say they're "queer" and then they have a right to take part in the festivities.
On some level, I get it. There is a lot of Pride focused stuff in our society and it feels bad to not really be "allowed" to take part in the fun, celebratory side of it. No one is making tote bags and enamel pins and dresses just for straight people, so many adopt one of these easy identities as a way to feel like they're part of a community.
Yeah, I was recently reading a news article about a womenтАЩs college and how it was expanding the definition of who their clientele is. They had interviewed a student who said something like тАЬI identify as non-binary and use they/them pronouns, because womanhood doesnтАЩt define me.тАЭ
And I thought, well, does womanhood define *anyone*? Also, I would say that IтАЩm not defined by my ethnicity, in that I defy many of the stereotypes and norms around it (some deliberately, some just by happenstance) тАФ but nobody would say that that makes me not be a member of that ethnic group.
With the word тАЬqueerтАЭ тАФ yeah. It makes me kind of sad, though, because I would like a vaguer term to describe myself тАФ IтАЩm maybe bi, maybe lesbian, didnтАЩt realize I was into women until an embarrassingly advanced age, but I eventually realized that even just the thought of being with a woman was more natural to me than that of being with a man. IтАЩd like to pick a label that doesnтАЩt force me to answer the question тАЬwere any of my romantic feelings towards men real, or did that come about because I sensed that society wanted me to be attracted to men and I talked myself into thinking I was attracted to them?тАЭ But there isnтАЩt one. So I guess itтАЩs тАЬbi, but significantly more interested in dating women than menтАЭ for now.
It's the worst holiday. No presents, no chocolate--just bitter infighting and a smattering of heavily photoshopped selfies. No thanks.