72 Comments
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
author

I'm not the only one who does so; the thinking is (mine is anyway) that metal is too constrictive in these contexts. For example Melvins is not metal, by my lights.

Expand full comment
Comment deleted
Expand full comment
author

everyone they influenced did it better than they did it themselves

Expand full comment

i love rollins band though

Expand full comment
Feb 18, 2022·edited Feb 18, 2022
Expand full comment

I like Black Flag but think they had already recorded their best material before Rollins joined.

Expand full comment

And I listen to side B of My War almost to the exclusion of any of the rest of their material

Expand full comment

Schubert kiiiiinda sorta did this in the trio to the scherzo of the C major quintet

Expand full comment

The “trio” begins at 4:18. I don’t think I’m completely offbase in seeing a spiritual kinship. In fact I think metal and classical (some anyway) have closer connections than people think.

Expand full comment

Thanks for the concept. I’ll pay closer attention. It hadn’t occurred to me. But then most of the references in this convo are way out of my range. My sons will enlighten me — they usually do.

Expand full comment

Beautiful. Why *that* particular piece, though? (As opposed to just ... any slow movements, say.)

Expand full comment

That’s a fair cop. It’s possible I exaggerated the parallel. But even a slightly dubious analogy can have heuristic value. Anyway, what grabs me about that section is what a death-wallow it is. It’s like, “Please, can I have some death w/ that death, and maybe a little death on the side.”

Even the outer sections (the A in ABA, the trio being the B) have some metal-like elements: the chaotic dissonance and metrical chaos. Of course there’s no amplification or drums, but you can hear it in the notes.

Expand full comment
Feb 15, 2022·edited Feb 15, 2022

Now you're talkin'...

Expand full comment

Indeed! I came to FdB’s blog for social/political & book commentary. The music is a bonus.

But the guy clearly has discerning taste. I wonder if he might broaden out & include classical in his musical peregrinations. (Or if not, why not?) I think his reactions would be interesting, given that it’s rich aesthetic terrain.

Expand full comment
Feb 16, 2022Liked by Freddie deBoer

So, purely hypothetically, say a guy (*cough* me) had written a book demystifying classical for music lovers who don’t grok it but would like to, perhaps FdB would like to take a glance at it.

Expand full comment

I have just enough chutzpah to take you up on that “like” & send some sample pages your way, FdB. Thx.

Expand full comment

Thanks! I love stuff like this. I like learning about new (to me) genres, and stuff like this is really helpful.

Expand full comment

What's "dragon voice"? Googling for that mostly gets me stuff about the speech-to-text software "Dragon Naturally Speaking", plus something about a manga entitled "Dragon Voice." Is it anything like so-called "Cookie Monster" vocals?

Expand full comment
author

yep

Expand full comment

my friends and I had a two year long group chat where we made up new verses to Dopesmoker. sometimes you can hear us parodying Om.

Expand full comment

Lungsmen unearth the creed of Hasheeshian.

Expand full comment

BRO

Expand full comment

weed eater, high on fire, pelican, isis

my youth <3

Expand full comment
Feb 15, 2022·edited Feb 15, 2022

Is the Melvins' surrealistic approach to words a feature of sludge more generally? One of the hallmarks of both their album art and their lyrics is that they are more adjacent to the Butthole Surfers than Aleister Crowley. I fricken love that, half the time they could be singing about household chores.

Expand full comment
Feb 15, 2022·edited Feb 15, 2022

Nah most of the others are generic spooky stuff. Harvey Milk are the only other wacky one I can think of off the top of my head. Oxbow, I guess, if you want to call that metal. I think the surrealism and humor comes from the alternative side of Melvins rather than the metal side.

Expand full comment

So when I heard you describe what it's like, what I imagined was more like Sleep than the other bands. I liked that one the best. The other ones sound like ...they should be faster or something. Well, not the Nirvana one, but that was the least interesting of the bunch. And I like Nirvana generally.

Expand full comment
author

Perhaps I pulled some punches in an effort to make this more inviting for the uninitiated? I dunno.

Expand full comment

I'm so uninitiated, you could tell me elevator music was sludge, and I wouldn't be the wiser. I appreciate learning about new bands, though. Sleep was new to me.

Expand full comment

You joke but there is a Melvins track that consists of angry answering machine messages from an old manager they burned bridges with over looped elevator music. I can't remember which album it's on but it's pretty funny. They seem to have a one genre-inappropriate joke song per album policy.

Expand full comment

I would love to hear that!!!

Expand full comment
Comment deleted
Expand full comment

Thanks, Mike! I was trying to DDG it and coming up empty (but also working so… to be fair it was a pretty scattered search). That narrows it down a lot!

Expand full comment

Grinding Process--YES! The first time I heard that song it hit me so hard I can still remember exactly where and when it was. Those early Melvins recordings are awesome. (I mean, so are the later ones...)

Expand full comment

Corrupted. Earth (2). Weakling.

Expand full comment

Corrupted rock but a Japanese band writing songs in Spanish has to be one of the funniest gimmicks of all time.

Expand full comment

First, you dissed waxing poetic about "the iron"

in one of the weightlifting posts, and now you say you don't like Black Flag. What's with the anti-Rollins-ism?

Expand full comment
author

I have nothing but respect for that man's traps and lats https://shruggedcollective.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/henry-rollins-01.jpg

Expand full comment

If you just listen to what the iron is trying to tell you, you can get there too.

Expand full comment

This is awesome, thank you. I only ever dabble in heavy/metal so have a hard time finding stuff I really like, and so far I enjoy this. Where do people place bands like Neurosis and YOB? I've found I really really like those bands, sludge seems adjacent.

Expand full comment
author

I more often see Neurosis placed in the stoner category, but of course it's all fungible.

Expand full comment

Yeah I thought Neurosis when I read this too. Saw them play a few years back and it was almost hard to believe the venue stayed upright considering how badly it was shaken and rattled.

Expand full comment

Primitive Man is probably the best band playing in this style right now IMO.

Expand full comment

THOU

Expand full comment

Absolutely. THOU are one of the rare modern sludge bands that avert nostalgia in favor of pushing new boundries.

Expand full comment

THOU is great but, for me, lack the nasty edge that Primitive Man has. They're great live though.

Expand full comment

I’m gonna see em open for Converge in a couple months and I haven’t been this excited for a show since Slayer’s farewell tour

Expand full comment

Ooh Emma Ruth Rundle (one of my faves) and THOU partnered up for an album 🥰

Expand full comment

I love a lot of grunge and Industrial rock, but haven’t - for no particular reason - listened to a ton of this stuff. Very helpful.

Expand full comment

Damn man I zone out on the cultural hot takes stuff but Freddie Explains Metal To The Squares is a genre I can get behind. You’re doing God’s work here brother

Expand full comment