I have known quite a few women that have gone though postpartum depression but none of them directed their anger or depression at the white male patriarchy. Maybe there are two topics here to discuss?
I have known quite a few women that have gone though postpartum depression but none of them directed their anger or depression at the white male patriarchy. Maybe there are two topics here to discuss?
Yes, and that kind of demented politically-performative wailing is why I still sometimes worry that "feminists" might be an alien species, despite knowing several sensible, sassy, and down-to-earth ones. "I'm glad you didn't have a sex-selective abortion, but why didn't you?" is what I'd be thinking but not saying if I had to deal with someone like that in real life.
At the same time, politically-performative wailing happens on both political sides of the "mommy wars". Among the army of full-time Trumpist pundettes, for example, are some that, before Trump's rise, bewailed having delayed childbearing for the sake of their careers. Then MAGA happened and their careers *really* took off. They're not bewailing the career track anymore. Funny, that.
I doubt it's possible to have "mommy wars" without performative cringe.
It is offensive. More offensive would be if she had an abortion because the baby was male (or female). If having a non-white baby is so important to her, then she needs to get knocked up (can that still be said -? IDK) by a non-white sperm donor. How virtuous she would be.
I could relate to the envy in "She told me she particularly hated... how peacefully he slept. тАШThere is nothing worse than the undisturbed sleep of a white man in a patriarchal world.тАЩтАЭ
I felt petty resentment toward my husband's "sleep superpowers" while I was miserably peripartum, too, though I didn't think of my envy as political.
I did harbor political resentment toward a certain type of pro-life mommyblogger that insisted -- with the best of intentions, I'm sure -- that "pregnancy is not a disease": that it's a perfectly natural and healthy state that women who've taken care of themselves have no reason to fear. The whole idealization of motherhood as the ultimate sacrifice, on the one hand, but also no sacrifice at all on the other (because it's what you and your body were "meant to do", because (it was often insinuated) all it takes to achieve healthy pre- and post-partum states is sufficient discipline, because any worthwhile woman will find it more fulfilling than anything...) grated on me.
I did experience pregnancy as a "disease", that is, as something my particular body was *not* set up to do "naturally", and while that can be attributed to underlying conditions, I didn't earn those conditions through lack of discipline. Instead, I entered my childbearing years quite fit and physically disciplined considering their presence -- then childbearing "broke" me for a while.
The term "kyriarchy" is intended to extend "the patriarchy" beyond gender. I'm not a serious feminist, but at least where these particular mommybloggers were concerned, I began to see why the label "kyriarchy" might stick. I had some loose professional relationships with them, and, while I think their intention was to buck other women up, to make being a "good mom" seem within every ordinary woman's reach and carrying a pregnancy to term seem unfrightening (and abortion therefore less attractive), the effect of such seemingly oblivious cheerleading on someone already suffering was the opposite, isolating and shaming.
Did I resent my husband politically? Or men as such? Nope. The "kyriarchy"? Justaweelittlebit. Sometimes.
Sherri - our next door neighbor, Mormon, mother of five, nine-months pregnant... I left for work and she was out tending her front-yard garden. I came back from work at the end of the day and she was out tending her front-yard garden. I parked and came inside and my wife said "did you hear that Sherri had her baby?"
I think I said "now, there is a woman!"
She did not ever seem the slightest bit oppressed.
The vast majority of my waking moments are spent feeling not in the least oppressed by "the man" or "the system".
But I do face concrete limitations I did not "earn" and therefore will find it slightly "oppressive" when the conservative mommysphere (whom I used to work with, as I said) cannot bring itself to be honest about what motherhood may be like, even for the "good girls".
I have no wish to take joy, health, and social support away from Mormon mothers who can garden without trouble (and I can't be sure Sherri had no trouble, just that you did not see it) immediately before and after giving birth.
I could not honestly convert to Mormonism myself, since it would require confession to things I cannot honestly believe, but I think there's much to be said for the Mormon support of family life. (It's not all rosy. There can be abuses. But, until our plans changed, my husband and I had planned to move to where the Mormons were to raise our family, and I was mostly looking forward to it.)
There's nothing wrong with admiring strong, healthy women who seem untroubled by childbearing. There is something wrong, logically and morally, with supposing all "sufficiently virtuous" women get to be those women.
True, but I find it completely impossible to believe that "I wouldn't have said that if I wasn't depressed" would be an effective magic spell to invoke for a white guy caught saying something offensive about a protected minority group.
I have known quite a few women that have gone though postpartum depression but none of them directed their anger or depression at the white male patriarchy. Maybe there are two topics here to discuss?
Yes, and that kind of demented politically-performative wailing is why I still sometimes worry that "feminists" might be an alien species, despite knowing several sensible, sassy, and down-to-earth ones. "I'm glad you didn't have a sex-selective abortion, but why didn't you?" is what I'd be thinking but not saying if I had to deal with someone like that in real life.
At the same time, politically-performative wailing happens on both political sides of the "mommy wars". Among the army of full-time Trumpist pundettes, for example, are some that, before Trump's rise, bewailed having delayed childbearing for the sake of their careers. Then MAGA happened and their careers *really* took off. They're not bewailing the career track anymore. Funny, that.
I doubt it's possible to have "mommy wars" without performative cringe.
It is offensive. More offensive would be if she had an abortion because the baby was male (or female). If having a non-white baby is so important to her, then she needs to get knocked up (can that still be said -? IDK) by a non-white sperm donor. How virtuous she would be.
I could relate to the envy in "She told me she particularly hated... how peacefully he slept. тАШThere is nothing worse than the undisturbed sleep of a white man in a patriarchal world.тАЩтАЭ
I felt petty resentment toward my husband's "sleep superpowers" while I was miserably peripartum, too, though I didn't think of my envy as political.
I did harbor political resentment toward a certain type of pro-life mommyblogger that insisted -- with the best of intentions, I'm sure -- that "pregnancy is not a disease": that it's a perfectly natural and healthy state that women who've taken care of themselves have no reason to fear. The whole idealization of motherhood as the ultimate sacrifice, on the one hand, but also no sacrifice at all on the other (because it's what you and your body were "meant to do", because (it was often insinuated) all it takes to achieve healthy pre- and post-partum states is sufficient discipline, because any worthwhile woman will find it more fulfilling than anything...) grated on me.
I did experience pregnancy as a "disease", that is, as something my particular body was *not* set up to do "naturally", and while that can be attributed to underlying conditions, I didn't earn those conditions through lack of discipline. Instead, I entered my childbearing years quite fit and physically disciplined considering their presence -- then childbearing "broke" me for a while.
The term "kyriarchy" is intended to extend "the patriarchy" beyond gender. I'm not a serious feminist, but at least where these particular mommybloggers were concerned, I began to see why the label "kyriarchy" might stick. I had some loose professional relationships with them, and, while I think their intention was to buck other women up, to make being a "good mom" seem within every ordinary woman's reach and carrying a pregnancy to term seem unfrightening (and abortion therefore less attractive), the effect of such seemingly oblivious cheerleading on someone already suffering was the opposite, isolating and shaming.
Did I resent my husband politically? Or men as such? Nope. The "kyriarchy"? Justaweelittlebit. Sometimes.
Sherri - our next door neighbor, Mormon, mother of five, nine-months pregnant... I left for work and she was out tending her front-yard garden. I came back from work at the end of the day and she was out tending her front-yard garden. I parked and came inside and my wife said "did you hear that Sherri had her baby?"
I think I said "now, there is a woman!"
She did not ever seem the slightest bit oppressed.
The vast majority of my waking moments are spent feeling not in the least oppressed by "the man" or "the system".
But I do face concrete limitations I did not "earn" and therefore will find it slightly "oppressive" when the conservative mommysphere (whom I used to work with, as I said) cannot bring itself to be honest about what motherhood may be like, even for the "good girls".
I have no wish to take joy, health, and social support away from Mormon mothers who can garden without trouble (and I can't be sure Sherri had no trouble, just that you did not see it) immediately before and after giving birth.
I could not honestly convert to Mormonism myself, since it would require confession to things I cannot honestly believe, but I think there's much to be said for the Mormon support of family life. (It's not all rosy. There can be abuses. But, until our plans changed, my husband and I had planned to move to where the Mormons were to raise our family, and I was mostly looking forward to it.)
There's nothing wrong with admiring strong, healthy women who seem untroubled by childbearing. There is something wrong, logically and morally, with supposing all "sufficiently virtuous" women get to be those women.
When you are depressed you aren't going to rational about a lot of things.
True, but I find it completely impossible to believe that "I wouldn't have said that if I wasn't depressed" would be an effective magic spell to invoke for a white guy caught saying something offensive about a protected minority group.