I’ve never understood private universities and employers having any “civil liberties” obligations. It’s “their” blog, law firm, university, etc. “they” can be as liberal with the proverbial ban hammer as they want.
Any chance you can get your friend Bari Weiss to have you back on to discuss this line?
"A bunch of the people who have dined out on free speech for years are saying nothing because Zionism is more dear to them than civil liberties, and now it’s time for all of us to state your basic allegiances when it comes to free expression."
It's very hard to feel sorry for 'protestors' who routinely call for the elimination of an entire race of people. Add to that, the fact that their leaders are rabidly religious(at least they say they are) and openly call for the removal of ALL religions but Islam from the face of the earth.
If Muslims want people to quit being 'afraid' of them....maybe they should tone down the rhetoric. I have yet to hear a Jew or Israeli vow to wipe Islam from the face of the earth.
Nobody believed Hitler would actually be as vile as he turned out to be....in spite of him saying it out loud over and over.
When zealots scream things out loud....like 'from the river to the sea,' you should believe it.
Remember, Hamas broke a cease fire to murder hundreds of Jews, most of them just civilians. This cannot be overlooked.
Having said that...this is NOT a fight the US should be involved in as a country. The Jews and Muslims have been fighting each other for hundreds of years. Not our monkeys, not our circus. We have problems of our own to solve.
We don't need to favor either side unless they attack US. Israel does not need aid. They are a rich country. If they want to buy stuff from us, fine, but we shouldn't be gifting them anything.
I am on Israel's side. I am NOT on the side of the vocal Palestinians. I AM on the side of the Palestinians that were used by Hamas as targets. They KNEW Israel had to retaliate in a big way to something so heinous. They have sacrificed Gaza while they all sit in Dubai and party down.
I don’t understand why people try to make this more complicated than it is. You believe in it or you don’t. If you do, you believe it applies to your worst enemies. If you don’t, don’t f*cking pretend you do.
As I understand it the Palestinians, for all intents and purposes, lost the Arab Israeli war and lost their territory as a result. Similar in many was to Mexico losing the Mexican American war and losing territory as a result. Well, in both cases, they lost it fair and square because they didn’t have their shit together and it’s going to stay lost so, like the Mexicans, they need to get used to it.
I mean if Mexico wants to send troops across the border to kidnap and murder Americans as part of some ill conceived plan to get California back they shouldn’t be surprised when we’re carpet bombing Mexico City. But we just want our land back! Well, you’re not getting it and the bombing will continue until you get that thought through your head.
I lean more toward Israel than Palestine in this wretched conflict, but that doesn't matter. It's reaching the point where I would support someone for president - literally anyone - who was passionately devoted to free speech over any other issue, foreign or domestic, free speech, period. Don't see anyone like that on the horizon, though.
You keep whipping this dead horse, but I just don't think firing people for debating whether puberty blockers were as safe as we were told is on the same level as firing people for debating whether it's ok to kill Jews.
The real hypocrisy here is that the "punch Nazis" crowd is now sharing talking points with actual neo-nazis. One side has clearly fallen farther than the other. And this is ignoring that Nazi included anyone right of AOC.
But to your point, I'll say the same thing I've been forced to say during the last 10 years of increasing authoritarian speech norm: This far, and no further. But I think we both know which side it is that's going to move the line again.
Generally the concept of free speech does not extent to blatant calls for violence. Go to any pro-Palestinian protest and you’ll hear exactly that - “glory to the martyrs” and “intifada now” are explicit calls for violence that promote terrorism and jihad.
This time is an opportunity to cultivate the culture of free speech that would improve the usefulness of our discourse. We could be watering that garden right now, but forever nope.
Pretty ballsy of you to argue Palestinians are human beings ENTITLED to equal rights, frankly quite shocking to hear.
“ civil liberties”
I’ve never understood private universities and employers having any “civil liberties” obligations. It’s “their” blog, law firm, university, etc. “they” can be as liberal with the proverbial ban hammer as they want.
Any chance you can get your friend Bari Weiss to have you back on to discuss this line?
"A bunch of the people who have dined out on free speech for years are saying nothing because Zionism is more dear to them than civil liberties, and now it’s time for all of us to state your basic allegiances when it comes to free expression."
It's very hard to feel sorry for 'protestors' who routinely call for the elimination of an entire race of people. Add to that, the fact that their leaders are rabidly religious(at least they say they are) and openly call for the removal of ALL religions but Islam from the face of the earth.
If Muslims want people to quit being 'afraid' of them....maybe they should tone down the rhetoric. I have yet to hear a Jew or Israeli vow to wipe Islam from the face of the earth.
Nobody believed Hitler would actually be as vile as he turned out to be....in spite of him saying it out loud over and over.
When zealots scream things out loud....like 'from the river to the sea,' you should believe it.
Remember, Hamas broke a cease fire to murder hundreds of Jews, most of them just civilians. This cannot be overlooked.
Having said that...this is NOT a fight the US should be involved in as a country. The Jews and Muslims have been fighting each other for hundreds of years. Not our monkeys, not our circus. We have problems of our own to solve.
We don't need to favor either side unless they attack US. Israel does not need aid. They are a rich country. If they want to buy stuff from us, fine, but we shouldn't be gifting them anything.
I am on Israel's side. I am NOT on the side of the vocal Palestinians. I AM on the side of the Palestinians that were used by Hamas as targets. They KNEW Israel had to retaliate in a big way to something so heinous. They have sacrificed Gaza while they all sit in Dubai and party down.
I don’t understand why people try to make this more complicated than it is. You believe in it or you don’t. If you do, you believe it applies to your worst enemies. If you don’t, don’t f*cking pretend you do.
I don't think they should ban their protests, but deport them.
As I understand it the Palestinians, for all intents and purposes, lost the Arab Israeli war and lost their territory as a result. Similar in many was to Mexico losing the Mexican American war and losing territory as a result. Well, in both cases, they lost it fair and square because they didn’t have their shit together and it’s going to stay lost so, like the Mexicans, they need to get used to it.
I mean if Mexico wants to send troops across the border to kidnap and murder Americans as part of some ill conceived plan to get California back they shouldn’t be surprised when we’re carpet bombing Mexico City. But we just want our land back! Well, you’re not getting it and the bombing will continue until you get that thought through your head.
TL:DR "Freedom of Speech" is very important. Except when sacred cows are gored.
Germany and other EU countries also have a history of silencing dissent from the approved narratives with regard to Russia and Ukraine.
I lean more toward Israel than Palestine in this wretched conflict, but that doesn't matter. It's reaching the point where I would support someone for president - literally anyone - who was passionately devoted to free speech over any other issue, foreign or domestic, free speech, period. Don't see anyone like that on the horizon, though.
In fairness, deeply un-American speech policies in Europe go beyond this issue.
Which is to say, *actual*, constitutional free speech in America is something very much worth defending.
All the more reason to not let these discussions devolve into "it should be illegal for someone to call me a corncob on Twitter".
You keep whipping this dead horse, but I just don't think firing people for debating whether puberty blockers were as safe as we were told is on the same level as firing people for debating whether it's ok to kill Jews.
The real hypocrisy here is that the "punch Nazis" crowd is now sharing talking points with actual neo-nazis. One side has clearly fallen farther than the other. And this is ignoring that Nazi included anyone right of AOC.
But to your point, I'll say the same thing I've been forced to say during the last 10 years of increasing authoritarian speech norm: This far, and no further. But I think we both know which side it is that's going to move the line again.
"You believe in [free speech rights] all the time, or you don’t believe in it at all."
This. Over and over again, this.
Thank you.
No....nowhere in there did I say they COULDN'T say it.
I said we had better LISTEN to what they are saying because they are SERIOUS.
By all means, let the loonies talk.....but there is actual intent behind their talk.
For example....the recent mass shooter in Maine professed that he was going to do a mass shooting before he did.....and NOBODY did anything.
If people come out and SAY they are going to commit acts of violence, believe them.
If they are dumb enough to say it out loud, then do something.
Words are not violence....but they can be a warning and when particularly vile, should be paid attention to.
Generally the concept of free speech does not extent to blatant calls for violence. Go to any pro-Palestinian protest and you’ll hear exactly that - “glory to the martyrs” and “intifada now” are explicit calls for violence that promote terrorism and jihad.
This time is an opportunity to cultivate the culture of free speech that would improve the usefulness of our discourse. We could be watering that garden right now, but forever nope.