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Ben Wheeler's avatar

I found Freddie's argument unconvincing. If you're an NBA coach, or a member of the US State Department, or a major tech company VP, you have to be very, very careful about saying something like Freddie's "But sure, there are huge human rights violations in China". Most such people are consciously careful not to say things like that, because they know it could damage or end their careers. That is literally appeasement. Collectively, it emboldens oppressors in the Chinese government. Within China, people are taken by the government from their families, and imprisoned or put in work camps, for saying things like this. What would you call the fealty that the Chinese government demands, even of foreigners, but a demand for appeasement?

As for "don't have an anti-politics"... oh, for fuck's sake, Freddie! You're the most anti person I've ever known with regard to your political positions and takes! It's often thought-provoking for me to read your fresh perspectives, but they are almost always a contrarian reaction to a mainstream view. Zaid didn't actually suggest that the West was appeasing to the USSR, but Freddie went on a whole rant about how "insane" that is anyway.

"you’ll wake up one day and you’ll find you’ve become completely unmoored", indeed!

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TracingWoodgrains's avatar

You are, of course, correct that the United States was practicing no sort of "politics of appeasement" towards the Soviet Union in the Cold War. I don't believe many would argue that. But Jilani was referencing U.S. behavior towards them in the 30s and 40s, and if our behavior then wasn't appeasement, I'm not sure what one ought to call it. In specific, I would argue that the United States followed a pattern of appeasement towards the Soviet Union in the 1930s and 1940s despite irreconcilable ideological aims, leading ultimately and predictably to the Cold War. Several specific moments illustrate this reconciliation:

Most famous is Walter Duranty's receipt of a Pulitzer for romanticizing the Holodomor-era Soviet Union. Because it is so well-known, I will not dwell on it. Less remembered is that the United States elected to reverse its policy and officially recognize the Soviet Union at around the same time in 1933, accompanied by an empty pledge from the Soviet Union not to conspire for the overthrow of the American Government.

More interesting to me is the case of William Bullitt, our first ambassador to the Soviet Union, who started his tenure as ambassador with deep sympathies towards its aims and ended it by providing a scathing warning:

"The Soviet Union genuinely desires peace on all fronts at the present time but this peace is looked upon merely as a happy respite in which future wars may be prepared... It is of course the heartiest hope of the Soviet Government that the United States will become involved in a war with Japan. . . . To maintain peace for the present, to keep the nations of Europe divided, to foster enmity between Japan and the United States, and to gain blind devotion and obedience of the communists of all countries so they will act against their own governments at the behest of the Communist Pope in the Kremlin is the sum of Stalin's policy."

I'm not sure how to read Roosevelt's rejection of that warning and subsequent reassignment of Bullitt to France as anything but an example of appeasement.

The examples of appeasement continue apace through World War II. What bitter irony that Britain entered the war by pledging to defend Poland against the Nazis, and the Allies ended it by explaining to the erstwhile Polish government, at that point exiled in Britain, that they could do nothing for them and that their country would stay in the hands of the Soviet Union. What was the Tehran conference if not appeasement: the US and Britain sitting down at a table with Stalin, pledging to allow his annexation of the Baltic States and large parts of Finland and Poland, along with massive influence over eastern Europe?

Even moments like our action (or rather, lack thereof) in China could be viewed as appeasement: the US encouraging the Nationalists and Communists there towards an impossible peace, while the Soviet Union shrugged and provided Mao with all the military aid he needed to seize the whole country and exile the Nationalists until the present day.

You say the case for appeasement of the Nazis is stronger because by the height of the Cold War we may have been spending 18 cents out of every dollar to oppose the Soviet Union. But that is like saying there were no efforts to appease the Nazis because at the height of World War II, we completed such a comprehensive rout of them that they were swept from the earth and their ideology made synonymous with the height of evil. No, appeasement isn't what happened during the Cold War, but prior to it: During the same time the world had elected to use the greatest collection of military might ever assembled to make the Nazis a hiss and a byword, with full awareness of what the Soviet Union was and intended, we overtly helped its sphere of influence spread from Russia alone to 23 nations containing almost half a billion people by 1946.

Yes, after that point, the US entered a long, drawn-out ideological war against the Soviet Union full of bitter proxy wars, immense effort, and blunders along the way. But the Cold War didn't start until we spent the better part of two decades aiming towards appeasement, and pointing to what we did after that switch flipped is a poor case against calling our actions during the 1930s and 1940s appeasement. I believe, by any clear standard, they were.

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