As most of you are aware, I've been off because I had my rotator cuff repaired a week ago - two of my tendons had full-thickness tears and were retracting into the cavity or whatever. I still feel pretty shitty and having to sleep in a sling sucks but the recovery has been getting easier. However, the first ~36 hours were genuinely harrowing, like a lot worse than I expected, and in part that's because I was given weak take-home pain pills.
There is one word missing from the conversation about opioid/painkiller abuse: kratom. We could be safely transitioning opioid addicts to kratom in large numbers and reducing their risk of death/overdose to effectively zero, if this plant's medicinal powers were better known and better understood.
I had a little taste of this 25 years ago at the dawn of the opioid crisis. Much like Freddie, I had a not trivial procedure and everything was fine and dandy until my brief supply of the good stuff wore off and I was supposed to switch to something that proved totally ineffective and was in agony. I can see how it is a tricky problem.
Good luck! I feel your pain quite literally. I broke my shoulder in March, shattered the humeral head, and in that case everyone was fine giving me the best pain pills, but I learned a harrowing truth: I am apparently super resistant to opioids. I could pop oxycodone like candy and feel neither brain fog nor any pain relief at all.
So yeah, it hurts like hell. Good luck, and I hope it recedes soon.
I mentioned this in my previous post, but I'll mention it again: kratom is a more potent painkiller than anything they will prescribe you, and it's not nearly so pleasurable or addictive. You can simply order it online and it's impossible to overdose on. Many I know who could not get strong painkillers for their surgeries used kratom instead and were extremely satisified with the results.
Yeah those nerve-blockers are something else man. I had one last Fall and felt the same weirdness to my limb. Then overnight it wore off and holy bejeesus lol. They also gave me weak sauce pills, but unlike you the intense pain lasted for a week or so.
At any rate, glad to hear you are doing somewhat better. Just be careful about sudden movements.
We humans tend to raise our arms in defense for all sorts of random things...hope nothing catches you off guard like that for awhile.
I hear you. I have amyloidosis, a terminal disease that causes substantial organ damage and results in a lot of neuropathic pain. I can’t get an opioid prescription for over 30 days, which requires me to contact the oncologist every month for a new prescription. Additionally, the other pain medication i just started (Lyrica) is a controlled substance as well, which probably means the same call every month to get the basic meds so that I can continue to function. There really needs to be a change that recognizes that sick people need meds, and regulating the law-abiding hurts real people. Letting the illegal drug trade flourish also hurts people, but there’s no appetite for doing anything about it because that’s hard. Our political class is all about getting easy wins they can trumpet as they seek re-election while letting the actual, difficult problems stay unsolved. Time to clean house.
It can be a problem in the other direction, too. Both my mother and GF were given opiates initially without it being discussed with them. Both said it made them 'feel strange' and discontinued them right away. This leaves me with the same advice as Freddie, though, to discuss with your doctor in advance.
Pain is tricky. It lets you know when not to move something, but it also ramps up your sympathetic nervous system. Seems like a good solution is give a patient a few days worth of the hard stuff in a prescription then transition. Maybe I’m a dum dum but like, why is that not just standard practice?
The opioid crisis is of course bad, but there's a serious overreaction here. My mother had rotator cuff surgery in April, and they gave her like 10 oxys and... Tylenol. Plain, straight up Tylenol.
She had to email and call her doctor repeatedly to get more oxys, then her insurance wouldn't fill it because it was too soon by a day (!), and the generic stuff is really cheap but pharmacies can't or won't sell opioids for cash (has to go through insurance) so she had to wait a day for more pain relief. It's a Kafkaesque nightmare that I'm sure causes more aggregate suffering than the 0.1% of people that get addicted.
Excellent advice about speaking to the Doctor prior to surgery and what he/she will prescribe for pain. I had knee replacement and was fortunate enough to get oxycodone, low dose for 7 days but I knew that was the limit. Shoulder surgery is probably the most painful joint to have surgery.
I am a physician, I think your surgeon needs to get an earful. Shoulder surgery hurts, and your pain experience is not uncommon. I could go on for quite a while about the opioid epidemic...wait, I think I actually will.
Many of the opiate addicts state that they got their start with prescribed opiates. The story goes that Freddie got his surgery and before you know it, he is shooting up Heroin and Fentanyl. Then he dies in a back alley with a needle in his arm and it is the doc's fault. That information comes from a truly reliable source...opioid addicts. Surveys of addicts state this. Don't take this wrong, but one aspect of the addiction is the lying. It is part and parcel of the problem. Even after they are no longer using, it sears the conscience to not place blame elsewhere, so doctors are an easy target. And doctors have just rolled over and accepted the blame. It is a complex problem, and we played a role in it, but I think that role is smaller than the medical community would admit.
It just seems like a stretch to me for the average Joe to transition from lawfully prescribed opiates to injectables. Ouch, my appendectomy hurts so bad, I need to shoot up some heroin!
The number of opiate prescriptions has been decreasing since 2010 but opiate deaths are escalating quickly. And the potency and number of the pills are less per prescription. Conclude what you will.
In 2004, Freddie would have gotten 40 pills of something much stronger, and if he called back in a week, would have likely gotten 40 more. We all knew he was likely becoming addicted, but we were afraid to not treat his pain adequately for fear of seeming insensitive. That was the indoctrination at the time. Unfortunately, the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, and I am sorry that Freddie got caught in that.
On a side note, codeine is metabolized to Morphine. Some people are fast and some are slow metabolizers, so a codeine pill really gives them relief if you quickly turn it into Morphine. Since it is so unpredictable, most pain docs feel it just isn't a good pain medicine. Ultra rapid metabolizers run the risk of overdose with pretty low doses of Codeine, but thankfully, those appear to be about 1% of the population.
I am curious to hear the perspective of others about the transition between prescribed pills and Heroin or Fentanyl. And I am sure to get flamed, but I expected this.
Excellent advice about speaking to your doctor prior to surgery to ascertain what their pain management consists of post op. I had knee replacement last summer and was fortunate to have had this conversation with my surgeon. I'm a retired RN so it was sort of instinct to have this type of discussion but most people will not. Shoulder surgery is the most painful post op of all joint surgeries.
Jesus Freddie, I’m so sorry you’ve been through this. Occasionally when I’ve spoken with doctors in a social setting (like my sister in-law), I’ve asked them what they think is the most vital advancement in medicine. Every single one has said “opioid pain medicine.” The fact is, docs wouldn’t be able to perform the extraordinary surgical procedures of the 20th and 21st centuries without narcotic pain meds. The response to the opioid crisis, which has certainly touched my family, can’t be to make doctors withhold meds and put people like you through hell. It’s completely backwards, limited thinking. Thank god your girlfriend was ready to go to bat for you. The U.S. healthcare system is so terribly broken, absolutely every person needs a partner, family member or friend willing to be an assertive advocate for their well-being. As I’ve said before in this space, we’re always asking the wrong goddamn questions in this country. Naturally the answers are totally insufficient. May it pass quickly, brother.
Ouch. That is awful. I knew it was bad, but this is stupid. My last surgery was 20 years ago and they gave me really strong pain meds. I wouldn't take them except at night because they made me feel like my IQ dropped 100 points. I could still feel the pain but just didn't care.
I need to push hard to get better meds for my surgery next month. And maybe try kratom now.....
There is one word missing from the conversation about opioid/painkiller abuse: kratom. We could be safely transitioning opioid addicts to kratom in large numbers and reducing their risk of death/overdose to effectively zero, if this plant's medicinal powers were better known and better understood.
I had a little taste of this 25 years ago at the dawn of the opioid crisis. Much like Freddie, I had a not trivial procedure and everything was fine and dandy until my brief supply of the good stuff wore off and I was supposed to switch to something that proved totally ineffective and was in agony. I can see how it is a tricky problem.
Good luck! I feel your pain quite literally. I broke my shoulder in March, shattered the humeral head, and in that case everyone was fine giving me the best pain pills, but I learned a harrowing truth: I am apparently super resistant to opioids. I could pop oxycodone like candy and feel neither brain fog nor any pain relief at all.
So yeah, it hurts like hell. Good luck, and I hope it recedes soon.
I mentioned this in my previous post, but I'll mention it again: kratom is a more potent painkiller than anything they will prescribe you, and it's not nearly so pleasurable or addictive. You can simply order it online and it's impossible to overdose on. Many I know who could not get strong painkillers for their surgeries used kratom instead and were extremely satisified with the results.
Yeah those nerve-blockers are something else man. I had one last Fall and felt the same weirdness to my limb. Then overnight it wore off and holy bejeesus lol. They also gave me weak sauce pills, but unlike you the intense pain lasted for a week or so.
At any rate, glad to hear you are doing somewhat better. Just be careful about sudden movements.
We humans tend to raise our arms in defense for all sorts of random things...hope nothing catches you off guard like that for awhile.
Oxycodone almost instantaneously makes me throw-up, hope you feel better soon
I hear you. I have amyloidosis, a terminal disease that causes substantial organ damage and results in a lot of neuropathic pain. I can’t get an opioid prescription for over 30 days, which requires me to contact the oncologist every month for a new prescription. Additionally, the other pain medication i just started (Lyrica) is a controlled substance as well, which probably means the same call every month to get the basic meds so that I can continue to function. There really needs to be a change that recognizes that sick people need meds, and regulating the law-abiding hurts real people. Letting the illegal drug trade flourish also hurts people, but there’s no appetite for doing anything about it because that’s hard. Our political class is all about getting easy wins they can trumpet as they seek re-election while letting the actual, difficult problems stay unsolved. Time to clean house.
Have you tried to use the Iceman for pain relief? My wife had rotator cuff surgery in September of 2020 and it was a huge help to her.
https://www.sourceortho.net/donjoy-iceman-clear3/?sku=11-0493&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2MWVBhCQARIsAIjbwoNrYb0yennFM4pxyAPPy8s5RGoBXMlhrvqsEdjgrVMZGgh3FIIxdv4aAsmnEALw_wcB
It can be a problem in the other direction, too. Both my mother and GF were given opiates initially without it being discussed with them. Both said it made them 'feel strange' and discontinued them right away. This leaves me with the same advice as Freddie, though, to discuss with your doctor in advance.
Pain is tricky. It lets you know when not to move something, but it also ramps up your sympathetic nervous system. Seems like a good solution is give a patient a few days worth of the hard stuff in a prescription then transition. Maybe I’m a dum dum but like, why is that not just standard practice?
The opioid crisis is of course bad, but there's a serious overreaction here. My mother had rotator cuff surgery in April, and they gave her like 10 oxys and... Tylenol. Plain, straight up Tylenol.
She had to email and call her doctor repeatedly to get more oxys, then her insurance wouldn't fill it because it was too soon by a day (!), and the generic stuff is really cheap but pharmacies can't or won't sell opioids for cash (has to go through insurance) so she had to wait a day for more pain relief. It's a Kafkaesque nightmare that I'm sure causes more aggregate suffering than the 0.1% of people that get addicted.
Excellent advice about speaking to the Doctor prior to surgery and what he/she will prescribe for pain. I had knee replacement and was fortunate enough to get oxycodone, low dose for 7 days but I knew that was the limit. Shoulder surgery is probably the most painful joint to have surgery.
I am a physician, I think your surgeon needs to get an earful. Shoulder surgery hurts, and your pain experience is not uncommon. I could go on for quite a while about the opioid epidemic...wait, I think I actually will.
Many of the opiate addicts state that they got their start with prescribed opiates. The story goes that Freddie got his surgery and before you know it, he is shooting up Heroin and Fentanyl. Then he dies in a back alley with a needle in his arm and it is the doc's fault. That information comes from a truly reliable source...opioid addicts. Surveys of addicts state this. Don't take this wrong, but one aspect of the addiction is the lying. It is part and parcel of the problem. Even after they are no longer using, it sears the conscience to not place blame elsewhere, so doctors are an easy target. And doctors have just rolled over and accepted the blame. It is a complex problem, and we played a role in it, but I think that role is smaller than the medical community would admit.
It just seems like a stretch to me for the average Joe to transition from lawfully prescribed opiates to injectables. Ouch, my appendectomy hurts so bad, I need to shoot up some heroin!
The number of opiate prescriptions has been decreasing since 2010 but opiate deaths are escalating quickly. And the potency and number of the pills are less per prescription. Conclude what you will.
In 2004, Freddie would have gotten 40 pills of something much stronger, and if he called back in a week, would have likely gotten 40 more. We all knew he was likely becoming addicted, but we were afraid to not treat his pain adequately for fear of seeming insensitive. That was the indoctrination at the time. Unfortunately, the pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, and I am sorry that Freddie got caught in that.
On a side note, codeine is metabolized to Morphine. Some people are fast and some are slow metabolizers, so a codeine pill really gives them relief if you quickly turn it into Morphine. Since it is so unpredictable, most pain docs feel it just isn't a good pain medicine. Ultra rapid metabolizers run the risk of overdose with pretty low doses of Codeine, but thankfully, those appear to be about 1% of the population.
I am curious to hear the perspective of others about the transition between prescribed pills and Heroin or Fentanyl. And I am sure to get flamed, but I expected this.
Excellent advice about speaking to your doctor prior to surgery to ascertain what their pain management consists of post op. I had knee replacement last summer and was fortunate to have had this conversation with my surgeon. I'm a retired RN so it was sort of instinct to have this type of discussion but most people will not. Shoulder surgery is the most painful post op of all joint surgeries.
Jesus Freddie, I’m so sorry you’ve been through this. Occasionally when I’ve spoken with doctors in a social setting (like my sister in-law), I’ve asked them what they think is the most vital advancement in medicine. Every single one has said “opioid pain medicine.” The fact is, docs wouldn’t be able to perform the extraordinary surgical procedures of the 20th and 21st centuries without narcotic pain meds. The response to the opioid crisis, which has certainly touched my family, can’t be to make doctors withhold meds and put people like you through hell. It’s completely backwards, limited thinking. Thank god your girlfriend was ready to go to bat for you. The U.S. healthcare system is so terribly broken, absolutely every person needs a partner, family member or friend willing to be an assertive advocate for their well-being. As I’ve said before in this space, we’re always asking the wrong goddamn questions in this country. Naturally the answers are totally insufficient. May it pass quickly, brother.
Ouch. That is awful. I knew it was bad, but this is stupid. My last surgery was 20 years ago and they gave me really strong pain meds. I wouldn't take them except at night because they made me feel like my IQ dropped 100 points. I could still feel the pain but just didn't care.
I need to push hard to get better meds for my surgery next month. And maybe try kratom now.....